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    <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
    <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_12/index.rss</link>
    <description>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</description>
    <item>
      <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
      <pubDate>2006-09-13 02:49:18+0200</pubDate>
      <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_16/index.rss</link>
      <comments>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_16/index.rss</comments>
      <dc:creator>Mark Rosst</dc:creator>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: I guess I should have started by asking this instead. Do you have a
&amp;gt; definition document of some kind of SD2-S as a system?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: Good question. I just now looked and the closest thing to
documentation is my &amp;#8216;screenshot&amp;#8217; posts. I do have a Yahoo group:
&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sd-2/"&gt;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sd-2/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
and my constraints for SD2 as an umbrella system are here.
But this is just for selecting generalist/trustees/directors, SD2-S is
much more sophisticated.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To understand SD2-S, look at the screenshot, and understand the default
hierarchy:&lt;br/&gt;
If specialists are not selected by the voter for an issue, then the
previous generalist/trustees are defaulted to.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a class="readMore" href="#" onclick="Element.hide(this); Element.removeClassName(this.parentNode.nextSibling, 'tooLarge'); return false;"&gt;Read more&amp;#8230; / Lire plus&amp;#8230;&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;div class="tooLarge"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: [&amp;#8230;]whether you actually expect 40% of the whole voting
&amp;gt; population to cast a direct vote on each issue &amp;#8211; &amp;#8230;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: No, 40% of whoever votes, by popular vote.
A majority isn&amp;#8217;t needed as long as the default 60% of PageRanked proxy
vote is met.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S:&amp;#8230;even if through a position through proxy, etc etc etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: And the representitive vote is determinned by PageRank
 &amp;#8211; this is the proxy vote, and this needs 60% by default.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: And direct voting is a voter directly casting his vote to be counted on a given proposal/issue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: OK, &amp;#8216;to be counted&amp;#8217; , which does what?
With SD2-S, this either triggers deliberation thresholds or not.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;shanti&lt;br/&gt;
Mark, Seattle WA &lt;span class="caps"&gt;USA&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
      <pubDate>2006-09-13 02:09:40+0200</pubDate>
      <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_15/index.rss</link>
      <comments>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_15/index.rss</comments>
      <dc:creator>Serge</dc:creator>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hey,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I guess I should have started by asking this instead. Do you have a
definition document of some kind of SD2-S as a system? Instead of
asking fragmentory questions and getting logically fragmentary answers,
it&amp;#8217;d probably be a better starting point. I have to say I am confused
as to the thresholds, whether it&amp;#8217;s all functionning in parallel or as
aggregates, whether you actually expect 40% of the whole voting
population to cast a direct vote on each issue &amp;#8211; even if through a
position through proxy, etc etc etc. And direct voting is a voter
directly casting his vote to be counted on a given proposal/issue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regards,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Serge&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
      <pubDate>2006-09-13 01:33:38+0200</pubDate>
      <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_14/index.rss</link>
      <comments>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_14/index.rss</comments>
      <dc:creator>Mark Rosst</dc:creator>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: Hey, Thanks for the link. I must be missing somthing though. At one point you state: Decisions are still made entirely by RD and then:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;#8220;-M: Its not proxy judgement &lt;strong&gt;or&lt;/strong&gt; personal judgement, its proxy
&amp;gt; judgement &lt;strong&gt;and&lt;/strong&gt; personal judgement, so the position that one takes gets
&amp;gt; counted as the popular vote, and it gets counted as the proxy vote when
&amp;gt; someone else selects the voter.&amp;#8221;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: The second statement seems to imply that popular voting, ie DD, is
&amp;gt; playing a role (which is what I understood from your screenshot), as
&amp;gt; opposed to what the first statement is suggesting. Could you clear
&amp;gt; this? In the case of someone selecting a voter that has already cast a
&amp;gt; vote as his proxy, isn&amp;#8217;t it similar in effect as direct voting? Feel
&amp;gt; free to point me to an old post if this has been discussed before.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a class="readMore" href="#" onclick="Element.hide(this); Element.removeClassName(this.parentNode.nextSibling, 'tooLarge'); return false;"&gt;Read more&amp;#8230; / Lire plus&amp;#8230;&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;div class="tooLarge"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: The screenshot/ballot provides for a DD-like input, and this data
gets used:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ol&gt;
	&lt;li&gt;At least to provide deliberation thresholds via popular voting.
SD2-S, if a default hasn&amp;#8217;t been overridden, 40% popular vote for an
issue to pass.&lt;br/&gt;
If more than 40% of the popular vote has been met, but less than 60% of
the rep vote, then the issue is in deliberation.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: As a remark, it seems predictable enough that with the sheer number of
&amp;gt; possible issues, very few people would be actively involved with an
&amp;gt; issue and not be representing other voters as proxies for that issue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: Thats why I would have numerical thresholds for issues also.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: By the same token, if one doesn&amp;#8217;t follow debates, it seems unlikely he
&amp;gt; would have any opinion beyond what his proxy filters down and advises.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: Then the proxies&amp;#8217;s opinions are needed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: Why not then allow direct voting? Proxies do have to start somewhere..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: What is direct voting? How it is done, or how it is counted?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With SD2-S, the direct vote is always allowed, and it is always counted
atleast for deliberation purposes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;shanti&lt;br/&gt;
Mark, Seattle WA &lt;span class="caps"&gt;USA&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
      <pubDate>2006-09-13 00:10:58+0200</pubDate>
      <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_13/index.rss</link>
      <comments>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_13/index.rss</comments>
      <dc:creator>Serge</dc:creator>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hey,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the link.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I must be missing somthing though. At one point you state:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Decisions are still made entirely by RD&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a class="readMore" href="#" onclick="Element.hide(this); Element.removeClassName(this.parentNode.nextSibling, 'tooLarge'); return false;"&gt;Read more&amp;#8230; / Lire plus&amp;#8230;&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;div class="tooLarge"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and then&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: Its not proxy judgement &lt;strong&gt;or&lt;/strong&gt; personal judgement, its proxy
judgement &lt;strong&gt;and&lt;/strong&gt; personal judgement, so the position that one takes gets
counted as the popular vote, and it gets counted as the proxy vote when
someone else selects the voter.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The second statement seems to imply that popular voting, ie DD, is
playing a role (which is what I understood from your screenshot), as
opposed to what the first statement is suggesting. Could you clear
this? In the case of someone selecting a voter that has already cast a
vote as his proxy, isn&amp;#8217;t it similar in effect as direct voting? Feel
free to point me to an old post if this has been discussed before.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As a remark, it seems predictable enough that with the sheer number of
possible issues, very few people would be actively involved with an
issue and not be representing other voters as proxies for that issue.
By the same token, if one doesn&amp;#8217;t follow debates, it seems unlikely he
would have any opinion beyond what his proxy filters down and advises.
Why not then allow direct voting? Proxies do have to start somewhere..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regards,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Serge&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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