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    <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
    <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_13/index.rss</link>
    <description>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</description>
    <item>
      <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
      <pubDate>2006-09-13 02:49:18+0200</pubDate>
      <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_16/index.rss</link>
      <comments>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_16/index.rss</comments>
      <dc:creator>Mark Rosst</dc:creator>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: I guess I should have started by asking this instead. Do you have a
&amp;gt; definition document of some kind of SD2-S as a system?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: Good question. I just now looked and the closest thing to
documentation is my &amp;#8216;screenshot&amp;#8217; posts. I do have a Yahoo group:
&lt;a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sd-2/"&gt;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sd-2/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
and my constraints for SD2 as an umbrella system are here.
But this is just for selecting generalist/trustees/directors, SD2-S is
much more sophisticated.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To understand SD2-S, look at the screenshot, and understand the default
hierarchy:&lt;br/&gt;
If specialists are not selected by the voter for an issue, then the
previous generalist/trustees are defaulted to.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a class="readMore" href="#" onclick="Element.hide(this); Element.removeClassName(this.parentNode.nextSibling, 'tooLarge'); return false;"&gt;Read more&amp;#8230; / Lire plus&amp;#8230;&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;div class="tooLarge"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: [&amp;#8230;]whether you actually expect 40% of the whole voting
&amp;gt; population to cast a direct vote on each issue &amp;#8211; &amp;#8230;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: No, 40% of whoever votes, by popular vote.
A majority isn&amp;#8217;t needed as long as the default 60% of PageRanked proxy
vote is met.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S:&amp;#8230;even if through a position through proxy, etc etc etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: And the representitive vote is determinned by PageRank
 &amp;#8211; this is the proxy vote, and this needs 60% by default.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: And direct voting is a voter directly casting his vote to be counted on a given proposal/issue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: OK, &amp;#8216;to be counted&amp;#8217; , which does what?
With SD2-S, this either triggers deliberation thresholds or not.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;shanti&lt;br/&gt;
Mark, Seattle WA &lt;span class="caps"&gt;USA&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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    <item>
      <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
      <pubDate>2006-09-13 02:09:40+0200</pubDate>
      <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_15/index.rss</link>
      <comments>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_15/index.rss</comments>
      <dc:creator>Serge</dc:creator>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hey,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I guess I should have started by asking this instead. Do you have a
definition document of some kind of SD2-S as a system? Instead of
asking fragmentory questions and getting logically fragmentary answers,
it&amp;#8217;d probably be a better starting point. I have to say I am confused
as to the thresholds, whether it&amp;#8217;s all functionning in parallel or as
aggregates, whether you actually expect 40% of the whole voting
population to cast a direct vote on each issue &amp;#8211; even if through a
position through proxy, etc etc etc. And direct voting is a voter
directly casting his vote to be counted on a given proposal/issue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Regards,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Serge&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable</title>
      <pubDate>2006-09-13 01:33:38+0200</pubDate>
      <link>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_14/index.rss</link>
      <comments>http://leparlement.org/Re_Disagreeable_14/index.rss</comments>
      <dc:creator>Mark Rosst</dc:creator>
      <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: Hey, Thanks for the link. I must be missing somthing though. At one point you state: Decisions are still made entirely by RD and then:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;#8220;-M: Its not proxy judgement &lt;strong&gt;or&lt;/strong&gt; personal judgement, its proxy
&amp;gt; judgement &lt;strong&gt;and&lt;/strong&gt; personal judgement, so the position that one takes gets
&amp;gt; counted as the popular vote, and it gets counted as the proxy vote when
&amp;gt; someone else selects the voter.&amp;#8221;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: The second statement seems to imply that popular voting, ie DD, is
&amp;gt; playing a role (which is what I understood from your screenshot), as
&amp;gt; opposed to what the first statement is suggesting. Could you clear
&amp;gt; this? In the case of someone selecting a voter that has already cast a
&amp;gt; vote as his proxy, isn&amp;#8217;t it similar in effect as direct voting? Feel
&amp;gt; free to point me to an old post if this has been discussed before.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a class="readMore" href="#" onclick="Element.hide(this); Element.removeClassName(this.parentNode.nextSibling, 'tooLarge'); return false;"&gt;Read more&amp;#8230; / Lire plus&amp;#8230;&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;div class="tooLarge"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: The screenshot/ballot provides for a DD-like input, and this data
gets used:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;ol&gt;
	&lt;li&gt;At least to provide deliberation thresholds via popular voting.
SD2-S, if a default hasn&amp;#8217;t been overridden, 40% popular vote for an
issue to pass.&lt;br/&gt;
If more than 40% of the popular vote has been met, but less than 60% of
the rep vote, then the issue is in deliberation.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: As a remark, it seems predictable enough that with the sheer number of
&amp;gt; possible issues, very few people would be actively involved with an
&amp;gt; issue and not be representing other voters as proxies for that issue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: Thats why I would have numerical thresholds for issues also.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: By the same token, if one doesn&amp;#8217;t follow debates, it seems unlikely he
&amp;gt; would have any opinion beyond what his proxy filters down and advises.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: Then the proxies&amp;#8217;s opinions are needed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;S: Why not then allow direct voting? Proxies do have to start somewhere..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-M: What is direct voting? How it is done, or how it is counted?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With SD2-S, the direct vote is always allowed, and it is always counted
atleast for deliberation purposes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;shanti&lt;br/&gt;
Mark, Seattle WA &lt;span class="caps"&gt;USA&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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