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[top-politics] Re: Disagreeable
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>S: Hey, Thanks for the link. I must be missing somthing though. At one point you state: Decisions are still made entirely by RD and then:
> “-M: Its not proxy judgement or personal judgement, its proxy > judgement and personal judgement, so the position that one takes gets > counted as the popular vote, and it gets counted as the proxy vote when > someone else selects the voter.”
>S: The second statement seems to imply that popular voting, ie DD, is > playing a role (which is what I understood from your screenshot), as > opposed to what the first statement is suggesting. Could you clear > this? In the case of someone selecting a voter that has already cast a > vote as his proxy, isn’t it similar in effect as direct voting? Feel > free to point me to an old post if this has been discussed before.
-M: The screenshot/ballot provides for a DD-like input, and this data gets used:
- At least to provide deliberation thresholds via popular voting.
SD2-S, if a default hasn’t been overridden, 40% popular vote for an
issue to pass.
If more than 40% of the popular vote has been met, but less than 60% of the rep vote, then the issue is in deliberation.
>S: As a remark, it seems predictable enough that with the sheer number of > possible issues, very few people would be actively involved with an > issue and not be representing other voters as proxies for that issue.
-M: Thats why I would have numerical thresholds for issues also.
>S: By the same token, if one doesn’t follow debates, it seems unlikely he > would have any opinion beyond what his proxy filters down and advises.
-M: Then the proxies’s opinions are needed.
>S: Why not then allow direct voting? Proxies do have to start somewhere..
-M: What is direct voting? How it is done, or how it is counted?
With SD2-S, the direct vote is always allowed, and it is always counted atleast for deliberation purposes.
shanti
Mark, Seattle WA USA
+1
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Hey,
I guess I should have started by asking this instead. Do you have a definition document of some kind of SD2-S as a system? Instead of asking fragmentory questions and getting logically fragmentary answers, it’d probably be a better starting point. I have to say I am confused as to the thresholds, whether it’s all functionning in parallel or as aggregates, whether you actually expect 40% of the whole voting population to cast a direct vote on each issue – even if through a position through proxy, etc etc etc. And direct voting is a voter directly casting his vote to be counted on a given proposal/issue.
Regards,
Serge
+1
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>S: I guess I should have started by asking this instead. Do you have a > definition document of some kind of SD2-S as a system?
-M: Good question. I just now looked and the closest thing to documentation is my ‘screenshot’ posts. I do have a Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sd-2/
and my constraints for SD2 as an umbrella system are here. But this is just for selecting generalist/trustees/directors, SD2-S is much more sophisticated.To understand SD2-S, look at the screenshot, and understand the default hierarchy:
If specialists are not selected by the voter for an issue, then the previous generalist/trustees are defaulted to.>S: […]whether you actually expect 40% of the whole voting > population to cast a direct vote on each issue – …
-M: No, 40% of whoever votes, by popular vote. A majority isn’t needed as long as the default 60% of PageRanked proxy vote is met.
>S:…even if through a position through proxy, etc etc etc.
-M: And the representitive vote is determinned by PageRank – this is the proxy vote, and this needs 60% by default.
>S: And direct voting is a voter directly casting his vote to be counted on a given proposal/issue.
-M: OK, ‘to be counted’ , which does what? With SD2-S, this either triggers deliberation thresholds or not.
shanti
Mark, Seattle WA USA
+1
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- At least to provide deliberation thresholds via popular voting.
SD2-S, if a default hasn’t been overridden, 40% popular vote for an
issue to pass.
