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Parlement
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20/05/06 22:57
Our constitution
Writing the European Constitution and involving the people in the process of Europe’s integration.
A wiki is kept here
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25/09/06 18:49
European Values and Vision
How Europe’s Values and Vision really look like from the bottom up.
This is a private initiative without any specific political or ideological background.
This is the first of two runs and intends to collect as much feedback as possible.
Have a say!
Thanks position: 1
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nice
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03/04/06 17:22
Our discussion today - neweurope.org
Just to sum things up, what we’ve discussed:
(1) Funding – is a problem because of lack of money for the participatory E.U. initiative
but
a successful participatory initiative should be able to rise money from the people anyhow, as the Dean campaign did proove:
-> we would need to be THAT good!
I don’t worry about the money first but how to aggregate sufficient attention from people. (Money can’t buy eyeballs) If we con “inspire” people the money will follow. (e.g. see google)
(2) Communication tools – the technology is ready (even the legal base is in place) – modern tools need to be applied to communication processes. That would enable to leverage from “the wisdom of crowds”. Some examples how crowds can be smart (or not so smart):
=> Modern communication technology enables real “two way” communication between literally millions of people in real time.
(just one example: IBM did this with 350.000 employees in an online-discussion which took place 72h around the globe – the results are used to restructure the company)
=> The challenge is to ask the “right” questions
(3) How to pull things together?
- If people believe that their input “matters” they will flock to that site
- If many people are on a site our representatives will pay attention
- If representatives pay attention more people will participate on that site …
We might start with the people or with or representative, or both … we just need to get the engine going:
- Pick the right topics which are on the people’s agenda
- Get representatives committed to listen, care – and to fight for the results
Let’s make a follow up confcall …
Enjoy, Klaus
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04/04/06 15:49
SV: Our discussion today - neweurope.org
Hi Klaus,
Can we talk tomorrow? The links looks very interesting – easier to discuss them on the phone. What about 4PM CET tomorrow? ;-) S*—-Oprindelig meddelelse-—Fra: Klaus [mailto:klaus@hammermueller.at]
Sendt: 3. april 2006 17:23
Til: Søren Winther Lundby
Cc: Emmanuel Charpentier; Andreas Heindl
Emne: Our discussion today – neweurope.orgJust to sum things up, what we’ve discussed:
(1) Funding – is a problem because of lack of money for the participatory E.U. initiative
but
a successful participatory initiative should be able to rise money from the people anyhow, as the Dean campaign did proove:
-> we would need to be THAT good!
I don’t worry about the money first but how to aggregate sufficient attention from people. (Money can’t buy eyeballs) If we con “inspire” people the money will follow. (e.g. see google)
(2) Communication tools – the technology is ready (even the legal base is in place) – modern tools need to be applied to communication processes. That would enable to leverage from “the wisdom of crowds”. Some examples how crowds can be smart (or not so smart):
=> Modern communication technology enables real “two way” communication between literally millions of people in real time.
(just one example: IBM did this with 350.000 employees in an online-discussion which took place 72h around the globe – the results are used to restructure the company)
=> The challenge is to ask the “right” questions
(3) How to pull things together?
- If people believe that their input “matters” they will flock to that site
- If many people are on a site our representatives will pay attention
- If representatives pay attention more people will participate on that site …
We might start with the people or with or representative, or both … we just need to get the engine going:
- Pick the right topics which are on the people’s agenda
- Get representatives committed to listen, care – and to fight for the results
Let’s make a follow up confcall …
Enjoy, Klaus
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Hi!
Sorry that I write but now…
Too bad that I could not join your discussion yesterday – but at the moment I am busy to organise an event in Munich. For that reason, I am not able to join your discussion tomorrow in the afternoon. I have to pull the brake for a few days – sorry.
I just galloped through the “Charter 47”, visited your site and checked out the links. Sounds very interesting and promising!
My proposal would be to discuss next week on the phone. We have to learn to know each other finitely! Please keep me posted about your conversation!
Looking forward for the next phone discussion.
Best,
Andreas
— Citizens of Europe
http://www.c-o-e.netAndreas Heindl
Secretary General
andreas.heindl@c-o-e.netAm 04.04.2006 15:49 Uhr schrieb “Søren Winther Lundby” unter <soren@nyteuropa.org>:
Hi Klaus, Can we talk tomorrow? The links looks very interesting – easier to discuss them on the phone. What about 4PM CET tomorrow? ;-) S*
—-Oprindelig meddelelse-—Fra: Klaus [mailto:klaus@hammermueller.at] Sendt: 3. april 2006 17:23 Til: Søren Winther Lundby Cc: Emmanuel Charpentier; Andreas Heindl Emne: Our discussion today – neweurope.orgJust to sum things up, what we’ve discussed:
(1) Funding – is a problem because of lack of money for the participatory E.U. initiative
but
a successful participatory initiative should be able to rise money from the people anyhow, as the Dean campaign did proove:
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&tag=ausdauersport-21&c amp=1638&creative=6742&path=ASIN%2F0060779594%2Fqid%3D1137135227%2Fsr%3D8-2%2F ref%3Dsr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl
-> we would need to be THAT good!
I don’t worry about the money first but how to aggregate sufficient attention from people. (Money can’t buy eyeballs) If we con “inspire” people the money will follow. (e.g. see google)
(2) Communication tools – the technology is ready (even the legal base is in place) – modern tools need to be applied to communication processes. That would enable to leverage from “the wisdom of crowds”. Some examples how crowds can be smart (or not so smart):
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&tag=ausdauersport-21&c amp=1638&creative=6742&path=ASIN%2F0349117071%2Fqid%3D1131952759%2Fsr%3D8-1%2F ref%3Dsr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl
=> Modern communication technology enables real “two way” communication between literally millions of people in real time.
(just one example: IBM did this with 350.000 employees in an online-discussion which took place 72h around the globe – the results are used to restructure the company)
=> The challenge is to ask the “right” questions
(3) How to pull things together?
- If people believe that their input “matters” they will flock to that site
- If many people are on a site our representatives will pay attention
- If representatives pay attention more people will participate on that site …
We might start with the people or with or representative, or both … we just need to get the engine going:
- Pick the right topics which are on the people’s agenda
- Get representatives committed to listen, care – and to fight for the results
Let’s make a follow up confcall …
Enjoy, Klaus
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That should be fine for me, but as late as possible, about 19h Paris time for example. Otherwise I work and am not able to use skype.
Of course there remains google talk (echarp@gmail.com), msn (echarp@hotmail.com) and irc.freenode.net #parlement onto which I’m available any time, well, any time during day time! :)
echarp
On Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 03:49:12PM +0200, Søren Winther Lundby wrote:
Hi Klaus, Can we talk tomorrow? The links looks very interesting – easier to discuss them on the phone. What about 4PM CET tomorrow? ;-) S*
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19/04/06 14:09
Mailing list our-constitution
I’ve created a mailing list called our-constitution, and subscribed us 4 to it.
Its address is our-constitution@leparlement.org
What do you think? Are you willing to use it? It is publicly accessible on parlement here.
Of course I will unsubscribe you or remove any mail if you so wish! (I’ve already sent it to it some of our former mails…)
echarp
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20/04/06 04:45
Re: Mailing list our-constitution - let's give it a try!
Hi Manu, thanks – let’s give it a try -
http://leparlement.org/our-constitution
looks great. Much better than DebateEurope for those who wanna read!
Thanks,
Klaus
P.S. Feature Request: Could I have a button to choose the sorting – most recent posting on top? Anyhow – like it
P.P.S. And something to have different threads, ... but to whome I am talking, sure you have a list on those features …
echarp schrieb:
I’ve created a mailing list called our-constitution, and subscribed us 4 to it.
Its address is our-constitution@leparlement.org
What do you think? Are you willing to use it? It is publicly accessible on parlement here.
Of course I will unsubscribe you or remove any mail if you so wish! (I’ve already sent it to it some of our former mails…)
echarp
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Thank you very much for your appreciation! :)
On Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 10:45:59AM +0800, Klaus wrote:
P.S. Feature Request: Could I have a button to choose the sorting – most recent posting on top? Anyhow – like it
It’s one of those things I am hesitant about, because it relies on many many variables and is not strictly required to have a functioning and usable system.
Yet, the “titles” box on the right hand side currently contains the ten most recent direct sub threads in reverse chronological order. This will evolve, I’m thinking about a box that would list all new descendant elements (not just immediate children), so that you could easily follow and respond to evolving conversations.
Using RoR web2.0 capabilities, this list would be watched by your browser, and updated automatically! (every second or so, and without modifying anything else on the page)
Those conversations would also be duplicated in real time on and from an irc channel (or possibly skype chat or jabber…).
Would that be enough?
P.P.S. And something to have different threads, ... but to whome I am talking, sure you have a list on those features …
Try to click on your name. The page is ugly, but it does show all your posts and the number of answers.
Obviously this can also evolve greatly. Suggestions welcome!
One of the nice looking features I’m currently thinking about, would be an avatar associated to you and your posts (because parlement does seem abrupt right now, it could use images and colors).
echarp
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20/04/06 04:45
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03/04/06 07:31
yigg ruby application for "open source campaign"?
Hi, my name is Klaus (http://klaus.hammermueller.at), and I am interested in how to apply open source processes outside the IT world too.
I contribute to some “grassroots” initiatives and have a new idea about how the http://www.yigg.de application could be used in a new way …
Emmanuel whom I have put on cc is also a Ruby enthusiast and builds like an “Internet parliament”: http://leparlement.org – well maybe it makes sense to pull efforts together …
My question would be what you all would think about an application of the yigg code for likeAny feedback is welcome, looking forward to hear from you!
LG, Klaus
P.S. thanks for doing the yigg stuff … much work!
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Hi Enrico,
thanks for the answer – as Emmanuel is a French guy, he might understand English better (even if this might be some stupid thing to say as well ;-)
Well, I didn’t expect that you are coding the features others request with top priority …
As Emmanuel is a Ruby programmer it may make some sense to look for shared components and functions in both projects – in the end it’s in both cases about voting and aggregating the wisdom of the many. Maybe I’ll try to learn some Ruby as well on my old days to contribute some bits (I am a very rusty J2EE and PHP programmer … those were the innocent days ;-) – well some testing I could provide at least.
Thus – yes we might be very eager to have a look at the CVS or subsilver as soon as you are ready !
Please keep us informed! Thanks,
Enjoy,
Klaus
P.S. absolute agree about the building of a community is crucial – and hard work. And the other cite too :)
Enrico Kern schrieb:
—-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-—Hash: SHA1Hallo,
erstmal sorry fuer die spaete Antwort. Ich denke mal ich kann durchaus Deutsch schreiben ;)
Momentan besteht YiGG aus einer menge dreckig programmierter PHP Skripte was so “from the scratch” auch recht schnell geschrieben wurde. Den momentan benutzten Quellcode gebe ich aus humanen Gruenden und zum schutz des potentiellen Quellcodelesers nicht heraus ;)
YiGG wird aber gerade neu gebaut in Rails und dann mit einer ersten Version unter der GPL veroeffentlicht (voraussichtlich am Linuxtag in Wiesbaden naechsten Monat, wo wir mit einem eigenen Stand vertretten sind).
Die Version kann dann gerne mit den veraenderungen (evtl. als Modul) die fuer digg4accountability notwendig sind benutzt werden. Fuer uns steht aber primaer eine andere Nutzung der Software im Vordergrund welche vorallem die integration anderer Quellen einbindet.
Momentan gibt es auch keinen oeffentlichen Entwicklungszweig und das wird vor Mai auch nicht passieren. Wenn wir diesen Status erreicht haben (und wir werden) wuerden wir sicher helfen die Software einzuschraenken/zu erweitern um die gewuenschte Funktionalitaet einzubauen die von Euch benoetigt wird.
Momentan sind wir aber mit unseren laufenden Sachen schon ziemlich ausgereizt was unsere Kapazitaeten angeht darum schlage ich vor benachrichtige ich Euch wenn wir soweit sind , insofern dann noch Interesse bestehen sollte.
Ein Hauptproblem ist auch nicht die Software an sich sondern man muss die Leute spaeter auch dazu bringen diese zu benutzen, vorallem baut das Prinzip auf Masse auf, was dann auch heist das es nicht mit einer hand Voll aktiver Benutzer funktionieren wird.
Gruss
Enrico
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—-—-—-—> “Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.” (Rich Cook)On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Klaus wrote:
Hi, my name is Klaus (http://klaus.hammermueller.at), and I am interested in how to apply open source processes outside the IT world too.
I contribute to some “grassroots” initiatives and have a new idea about how the http://www.yigg.de application could be used in a new way …
Emmanuel whom I have put on cc is also a Ruby enthusiast and builds like an “Internet parliament”: http://leparlement.org – well maybe it makes sense to pull efforts together …
My question would be what you all would think about an application of the yigg code for likeAny feedback is welcome, looking forward to hear from you!
LG, Klaus
P.S. thanks for doing the yigg stuff … much work!
—-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-—Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)iD8DBQFENRJcbYuJ86uo9ycRAvsYAJ9HFtrY9HH2NmltikVetjql3Yw2UwCgrvsy r/kaFb9NXux0vnMBk9l9318= =RhtC
—-END PGP SIGNATURE-—
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03/04/06 06:46
it's Ruby 4 rails - Ad: idea on how to get people participating and representatives to care
have a click:
http://hammermueller.at/tiki-index.php?page=digg4accountabilitycheers, Klaus
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01/04/06 14:20
idea on how to get people participating and representatives to care
have a click:
http://hammermueller.at/tiki-index.php?page=digg4accountabilitycheers, Klaus
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31/03/06 04:29
Re: SV: SV: nyteuropa.org
Hi Søren,
impressive agenda! I’ve read it all and it is quiet ambitious! As this program is running, I am sure plenty of experiences have already collected.
One question I found in the press was if discussion is enough if the results tend to be without consequences afterwards:- http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=2380723
Actually this is the question which drives me most: How can one aggregate results from discussions that have enough potential to “survive” and are not buried quickly in some papers? Well I have some ideas, but one more thought before:
If you look to large corporations – the executives there have kind of “absolute power” which is not democratically legitimated and they are also not very accountable for what they do, like Enron (or in Austria BAWAG more recently) demonstrates.
but
market forces keep the executives up at night and keep the system changing. Thus there is pressure – with the result that today’s corporation get rid of their hierarchies. There is little “top down” command and control in place any more. That’s simple because “floor level employees&#
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25/09/06 18:49